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  • #645965
    • Posts : 9
    • Commoner

    it will interesting to see how the new class warlock works

    • Posts : 5728
    • Mind Flayer
    • Posts : 139
    • Orc

    I have to say I’m very happy about 5th Ed. It’s rekindled my interest in D&D (and I’m visiting this site again after a fairly long gap… 😉

    • Posts : 1433
    • Owlbear

    Okay, here we go. WALL OF TEXT INCOMING!


    My group, recently resurrected after a number of months of inactivity, and I have been trying out DnD5e and the Horde of the Dragon Queen adventure. I may do a review of the adventure later but this is about the system itself. The only reason I mention the adventure is because I feel it has coloured my perceptions of this edition by the challenges it has provided and others may have found different experiences.


    To begin with, I believe the old site documented my falling out with 4th edition. Like many I found the system initially appealing and incredibly fun to build characters in but a chore to play in combat. I think it was an important step in the development of the new edition, though, largely because it forced a severe reaction and subsequent changes to the game design and also because it did change up a few things for the better. To understand those changes, though, we have to go even further back.


    2nd edition, where I got my first taste of DnD incidentally, was simultaneously very open and yet also restrictive. In terms of things you could do you were limited really only by your imagination and how willingly you could convince your DM to get onboard wit your crazy ideas. There were a collection of simple rules that didn’t cover everything specifically but could be applied to a lot of things broadly. And for the most part that worked. But there were limitations in terms of what your character could be with racial restrictions on classes, ability scores that did nothing for your character, and everyone’s favourite bugaboo, THAC0.


    Bring in 3rd edition which clearly tried to be different. It simplified a lot of the math with standardized stat mods that were easier to calculate and tell what bonus they would give you, it opened up classes to all races unless your DM had a reason for saying you couldn’t play a chaotic evil merperson in his party of paladins who patrolled the interior plains, and in general I think it tried to make it easier on the DM by actually providing specific rules for all sorts of situations. Now, whether you like this approach or not, or how well you think it worked out (spoiler, it got kinda nuts) most people can at least appreciate the intention. The whole thing got so bloated,though, that clearly things needed to get simplified.


    We return, then, to 4th edition. Let’s not focus on the lists of powers and abilities that made combat more of a tactical boardgame than an RPG and ironically slowed it even more than some 3rd edition fights, but on the goal behind the powers. Looking at what 4th wanted to be is like looking at the art from the Classical Greek period – it’s Heroic Realism. They clearly wanted everyone to be awesome, to have the tools to be whatever kind of awesome they could conceive of, and they wanted it to be more accessible than the library of books you would need to optimize a character in 3rd. Powers provided a visual list of capabilities so that new players could see clearly how they could do those awesome things. Races got even more applicable to any class with the removal of negative stat modifiers in favour of more bonuses across the board. At-wills suddenly meant spellcasters always had an option other than hiding in a corner or using that one ability they could only use once a day before then being forced to hide in a corner (they got more HP too). Skills, Alignment, and things like grapple check rules were all simplified as well. The sad thing is, all this did was cause people to focus on what was listed on their character sheet because suddenly that’s where all the rules that seemed important were listed. You no longer had people trying to think outside the box because they were boxed in by 5 ft squares and tactical movement.


    Sidebar: We literally had a 20 minute argument in one of my games in and out of character because the cleric, who had 11 str, refused to climb a rocky incline with plentiful handholds because his Athletics score was so low. Seems unreasonably long for such a simple thing, but tripley so because every 30 seconds (real time) I was moving lava closer and closer to his character after a previous discussion went on so long that the only other means of escape had already been covered.


    4th edition failed so badly at its intentions that it actually had a hotpatch stuck in halfway through its lifespan where Wizards desperately tried to rebuild positive feedback for the edition by harkening back to earlier editions, 1st and 2nd, and here we can clearly see the origins of 5th. 


    5th edition, simply put, feels like 2nd edition. It’s got more polish, it’s clearly scavenged rules along the way to streamline things like skills and grappling and what have you, the wizard doesn’t have to run in fear from an irate housecat, and we could argue long and hard over whether it lives up to its intentions (though I think it’s too early still to tell), but having played through 5 sessions now my group agrees that if nothing else it feels like the heart of the edition most of us started this hobby with is beating alive and well in this new edition. Moreover it’s been fun and at one point frustrating to see the members of our group who haven’t played 2nd suddenly find that they can just say they want to do a thing and it almost always works. Let us also not discount that the DCs and ACs and other target numbers you generally have to hit to do something don’t creep up remotely as fast as they used to. A lvl 1 commoner has a chance to David v Goliath a lvl 10 fighter in fullplate, ignoring HP vs the damage of a sling. He could still peg him, even without critting.


    I think one of the most interesting things about the edition, and you can see a lot of work went into it, is that character creation is both conceptually intuitive with well defined niches for each class to specialize in but also incredibly open. Even before you get to the variants for each class, which in the PHB is anywhere from 2 to 8 options, there haven’t been many concepts that weve come up with that haven’t just worked out. The only character I actually haven’t been able to build in one way or another is my good friend Oddric, a half-orc rogue who wields the biggest weapon he can find. Sadly for sneak attacks that limits him to a rapier, but that could easily be rectified witht he new feats.


    I saw BJB comment on feats earlier and while I do agree to an extent (I simultaneously love and loathe hunting through the massive feat lists for 3rd and Pathfinder) I was actually excited by feats for the first time. Excited. By feats. That is a weird sensation. But the new feats are mechanically pretty cool. Instead of things you need to take, usually in an order, with stat requirements you may not have or want, and that’s the only way to build your guy competitively, feats are now entirely optional. In fact, you’re forced to choose between advancing your stats or getting a feat, but that’s also kind of cool mechanically. With lower DCs you don’t need massive stats to do things anymore, though of course we all want them because bigger numbers are always better. At certain levels you gain more stat points than you used to making it that much easier to fill in the ones you want or need and then they cap at 20. It’s entirely likely many characters will run out of stats they care about. You could start building a new stat or you could get a feat which, instead of one incremental benefit, is now a package of awesome things you can do that others can’t. it’s almost a prestige class in terms of a jump in starting abilities. But if you don’t like feats, don’t use them. Nothing in there is anything you strictly need to play and excel at the game.


    I also really like the new resting rules. I don’t know if a full hour is strictly necessary for a short rest but I like the implication that it isn’t quite as easy as just leaning against a wall for 30 seconds to catch your breath and then rolling on. It forces the players to actually think about what they’re doing, where they can legitimately shore up for a break to wrap their wounds, grab a sandwich, and discuss strategy before moving on. I also like that, like 4th edition, everyone has an ability to heal up a bit during a rest and that the healing is quite limited. it sounds crual but killing 4th edition characters was nearly impossible. It’s still tricky since generally there will be a few rounds of death saves but with oldschool damage dice vs HP totals and dwindling resources as the day rolls on the fear of death is back and I sorely missed it.


    And speaking of heals, I love that every spellcasting class is slightly different. It is a huge pain when trying to remember how each class works in terms of memorizing, preparing, and how often they get those precious spell slots back (go warlocks!) but it’s a nice because it makes each class feel different. I am curious to see how higher level casting will go and will likely have more to say on it later.


    My last point is that, moreso than other editions, this one feels like it encourages customization. Each class is comprised of a number of elements, like lego, and it’s easy to see how some pieces could be exchanged for others. I think there’s huge potential here for homebrewing and, though I honestly know this won’t be the case, I very much hope that Wizards resists the urge to release book after book of new classes and feats. Maybe the odd book, with distinct and interesting new classes and defintiely some more spells, but for the most part let us work out what we want with the bits we have.


    Anyway, that’s my incredibly long opinion piece. I am highly optimistic of this new edition and we’re planning on finishing this campaign and then likely starting a new one shortly thereafter. I’ll come back with new insights as I think of them.

    • Posts : 5728
    • Mind Flayer

    This is a placeholder for when I am less sleepy but I have comments.
    I will probably forget about this placeholder and accidentally make a new post.

    That’s okay @[member=Telemergion], we’ll just go find a hot body and hold it against you. 😉


    • Posts : 19
    • Commoner

    Okay, here we go. WALL OF TEXT REMOVED!


    My opinion.  Pretty much I have played some 3, 3.5, and 4th.  I played 1st and 2nd edition a lot.  5th seems to take 2nd edition and take the better parts of the other editions and combined them.  Everything seems to be better and faster.  Will it be better then Pathfinder, I say yes.  The gaming community as a whole might be different opinion.  =)

    • Posts : 7755
    • Treant

    I think there are two groups of folks. There are folks who have been gaming a long time who remember ADnD and earlier who are really going to like 5e because it feel right to how they started gaming. Then there are people who came to gaming after 3e who are not going to like it as much because their gaming is more about character development and having 4 million options to fine tune a character exactly the way you want it and 5e will feel a little raw and incomplete.


    Personally I quite like it 🙂


    Hal :hal:

    • Posts : 905
    • Gelatinous Cube

    My experience of DnD is all 3.5

    I got put off 4th by all the edition wars rubbish that was around and so skipped it. With hindsight it seems an interesting game with some good concepts. At some point I’ll find time to play! Pathfinder looked interesting to me but I never got around to it due to my life having too many other games at that stage.

    As for 5th, I will look into it. I have enjoyed listening to 5th ed audio, more so than Pathfinder and 4th actual play. Whether this means it is a better game, I don’t know but the players seem to be have plenty of fun 🙂

    • Posts : 5728
    • Mind Flayer

    Has anyone else noticed this in the D&D 5E PHB?

    So on page 73 of the PHB is a picture of a Wizard and a Knight fighting a Hydra which a bunch of runes underneath.

    Turns out those are Elder Futhark runes. Turns out my friend can read Elder Futhark (its only mostly a dead language). Turns out the first seven words are This is photoshops version of Lorem Ipsum and of course the rest is meaningless.

    Well played Wizards.


    • Posts : 5728
    • Mind Flayer
    • Posts : 5728
    • Mind Flayer

    A Low-Math System for Character Advancement, Adventure Pacing and Treasure Allocation for 5e

    I’ll be the first to admit that I’m not intimately familiar with D&D 5e: I’ve given the Basic rules a read and they look fine, just not something I’m willing to invest myself in over the dozens of other games I’ve got. That said, it’s still given the amateur designer in me some food for thought, and I’ve decided to dedicate some of my ideas to paper.

    [Click this link for] a system that tries to strike a nice balance between bean-counting experience and more narrative “You level up when appropriate to the story” systems.

    • Posts : 5728
    • Mind Flayer



    • Posts : 51
    • Bullywug

    I got the 5th core rulebook,

    I think I like it, have not tested it out in a game but it looks OK for me so far.

    • Posts : 5728
    • Mind Flayer

    • Posts : 348
    • Thri-kreen

    Actually the final boss of D&D is the Invisible Christopher Walken. (beware the languages)

    insert witticism here

Viewing 15 posts - 76 through 90 (of 100 total)
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