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I have been thinking about the comment that Shar’s avatar in Balazaar’s dream was attractive no matter what race the player — and I thought, Balazaar responded more to what I’d think a dwarf would. I mean, in the eyes of the mainstream dwarf, could a human woman ever be attractive? No seriously… I mean, elves and humans are very similar in proportion and characteristics. But , well, dwarves are quite different.
It’s kind of like the old alien invasion movies — why would they WANT our women – they’re green bug men from mars. Wouldn’t they be more partial to green bug ladies?
Anyway, I’m coming down on the side of the concept that, (godly aura aside), it would only be a dwarf with unusual tendencies that fancied a human woman. Paul played Balazaar quite properly in that regard. And it seems like Balazaar (THE CHARACTER) is such a narcissist (lovably so) that he might only really love himself. 🙂
Anyway, there might be humans that fancy dwarf ladies … But… well, um… it strikes me that these would be few and far between.
And to people that think I’m taking this seriously, I am! I mean, well… no. Not really. But I think it’s an interesting thought experiment. 🙂
Does anyone remember the old world of Mystra (aka the known world)
where halfling men were traditional hobb…. (oops nearly said the h word)
and the women were all disturbingly attractive with little non-hairy feet.
In the same way I have found portraits of female dwarf characters that I find attractive in a strange sort of way.
However I agree with you on this point.
Ok, maybe this way would make it more sensible. Imagine you dating an ogre female. I think that’s not unlike what humans might look like to dwarves. Even a good looking ogre — well, mate, it’s still an ogre. LOL
Shathis wrote:It’s kind of like the old alien invasion movies — why would they WANT our women – they’re green bug men from mars. Wouldn’t they be more partial to green bug ladies?To descend into the philosophical we might discuss the nature of beauty or at least attractiveness.
Certainly it is in the eyestalks of the beholder to a degree but is there a larger rule of beauty that might be applied. Some would suggest symmetrically features equate to beauty across cultures although clearly a wide variety of exists.
Perhaps it is simply a matter of carriage as those we might describe as less beautiful are attractive to hordes (certain rock stars as an example). Or perhaps social standing?
In my mind a Goddess of any visual appearance would be stimulating simply because of the power and aura of Her being.
Ah, the mysteries of love (or lust).
Tom
I think it’s just a bit of human hubris to believe human-shaped women would be lovely to all other races and species, no matter how much I like them myself.
Ey, Tom, would you fancy a female orc goddess? 😉 After all, being an orc ideal, she’d be all extra manky! hee hee
A slight update June 22, it appears Hal will/has addressed this issue in session 22. I am humbled! 🙂 No spoilers here, though
Shathis wrote:Ey, Tom, would you fancy a female orc goddess? 😉 After all, being an orc ideal, she’d be all extra manky! hee hee
Where do you think Half-Orcs come from? Read the ph. Nasty thoughts really, but still entertaining.
Quote:Anyway, there might be humans that fancy dwarf ladies…I happen to like short, stocky, buxom girls with football player’s shoulders.
And I think the issue all relates to CHA. There may be racial modifiers, but if the creature’s (in this case, A GOD’s) CHA is high enough, the sheer strength of their personality and “objective good looks” (if such a thing exists) will overpower any slight racial discrimination that may occur.
Lemme put it this way – have you ever been attracted to someone that wasn’t all that good looking, and you had no idea why they caught your eye? And your friends would be incredulous that you would think he/she was cute? Same thing…. physical attraction can have attributes other than simple comeliness.
It’s a relativistic issue, like Paul’s assertion that evil is a quantifiable value in the D&D world (which I happen to agree with). If you step out of the box, then… yes, killing Hitler in his sleep could be argued a humanitarian action if rationalized to the highest level…. but in D&D, it’s an Evil Act.
What I’m saying is that there has to be a certain level of suspension of disbelief occuring with inherently subjective topics like “physical attractiveness” in the D&D world.
Sorry to get all lofty and deep on you guys… but the social mechanics of the behind-the-scenes of D&D is what I find most fascinating about the hobby… for instance… I’m trying to use our newly-formed campaign to get my players to approach real-life moral issues from different angles… one is a fierce non-denominational Christian, and I want to see if I can use an allegory within our game to show him how minority groups should be respected, regardless of the nature of their seclusion from the status quo (he thinks homosexuality is a Sin).
If you disagree with someone, despite their point of view, do you really think it’s fair to use D&D to preach your POV at them? I’m not trying to be combative and I don’t disagree with you on the importance of the lesson, but is it really the place and is it really anything more than you being preachy to a preachy player?
I don’t want to come off as rude in saying this, so please don’t take it as an accusation, but more as a concern that – however noble in your mind the idea – that the player may not take it that way, as he will see it in reverse?
Actually, I’m not so much bothered by Shug’s attempt to introduce his POV into his campaign, which is probably odd considering I’m a volunteer catechist at my local parish. But one of the things we try to do, rather than say don’t watch this or listen to that, is get the kids to realize that EVERYTHING has a built-in POV and to recognize what it is when they see or it hear it. And yes, that includes what we’re telling them too.
What I would hope is a few things:
1. I hope the guy is old enough and intelligent enough to understand what Shug is doing.
2. I hope that once the lesson has been presented that Shug responds charitably if the guy chooses not to agree with everything Shug wants him too.
3. And, if the guy finally doesn’t agree with all of Shugs conclusions, I hope he has enough of an understanding of his own belief system to respond charitably and not start condemning everyone to Hell. Big no no!
That’s what I would hope for if someone feels the need to introduce this kind of thing into the game. Otherwise, maybe they should just roll the dice and kill some monsters. You can always leave the heavy stuff for later, preferably over a pint of ale. 😀
Sorry to run my mouth, but the new school seasons starting up you know. 🙄
Well, I’m going to keep it as subtle as possible, and not beat him over the head of it… and I’m not going to pull it out of its allegory. There is a time and place for everything, and I’m not going to start a moral debate in the middle of a gaming session (well, not a debate that involves real life, anyways… 😛 … I promote in-game morality discussions).
What I’m trying to do is show that are alternative points of view to moral questions, questions that should not be blindly dismissed because of one’s certain point of view.
And we’re all old and crusty, so no worries about manipulation. Anyway, in my years I’ve learned that it’s almost impossible to change someone’s moral compass once it’s set… morality is based in part on someone’s beliefs, which in turn are just that – beliefs. Unassailable by logic and reason.
This is a debate that we’ve been having a long time, in good natured debate with an understood agreement that it shall never come to conclusion, so I think if he does peel back the layers and see what I’m doing, he’ll have a good laugh at the attempt and we’ll move forward. I’m hoping that I can get him on the opposite side of the debate on the allegory before he realizes what’s going on, so he can 😳 and I can give a little giggle.
That sounds cool Shug.
I am using something similar in my ongoing campaign. The Sword Rulers rule in a lawful manner and to the general populace in a lawful good manner. Many people feel they rule in a lawful evil manner , forcing a conversion to a new religion.
So one might say my entire D&D story is based around differing points of view from multiple layers of society.
The heroes have to figure out who is right, who is wrong, who will rule and who will fall.
I do think the entire story will never get played out because it is too big for a few heroes to fix, but the eternal struggle is certainly worthy and worth playing out in game.
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